Talk: Kurashikku Kamera Senka

Page name, etc etc

What do you all (Rebollo fr?) think of this? Even if you like it, what do you think of the page title? I'll wait to see if this goes down well before linking to it via a template, etc. -- Hoary 09:55, 23 January 2007 (EST)

I don't like the effect in the contents list that's produced by putting the number at the front of each subheading. Better would be to list every issue (and nothing but every issue); they'd number themselves. But this is both very ambitious and very fragile. Ideas? (Till I'm happy with this -- and the page title -- I don't intend to do much linking to it.)

Another problem: At least two issues are (mostly) devoted to "spring cameras". There are ways of distinguishing the two, but it's important to realize that the issue one happens to possess that concentrates on X may not be the only issue that concentrates on X (even when X isn't [yawn] Leica). -- Hoary 10:44, 23 January 2007 (EST)

This page is surely needed.

Are you positive that you want pure Hepburn translitteration and don't want "Classic Camera Senka"? Here are the google hits for the latter and for the Hepburn version. I admit that this is not very convincing, but it seems that "Classic Camera Senka" would be the natural Roman writing used by a Japanese person. Perhaps you could ask your local informant?

We will decide the page title after we choose the Roman writing, of course. Anyway KRKKS is not very nice, maybe we will decide KKS or CCS or the full title.

In the table of contents, I think that the idea of having one section per issue is the logical solution, with the issue number in the header. It is not that fragile: who would like to add another section when we have described all the issues?

I don't think duplicate themes are a problem. If one has got an issue of the magazine, I think he is able to find the issue number. If he doesn't have the issue, he will buy according to the issue number.

--Rebollo fr 14:25, 23 January 2007 (EST)

I'm very wary of asking native Japanese informants for the way in which they'd naturally write Japanese in roman script. This is because Japanese people virtually never write Japanese to end up in roman script, whereas (i) they do very often use roman script to write Japanese script: well over 95% of Japanese script written via computer is input via roman script, and (ii) the FEPs (IMEs) for Japanese are typically programmed to allow all kinds of bizarreness (cf the way in which browsers are programmed to interpret HTML tag soup). 新宿 (Shinjuku in Hepburn, Sinzyuku in Kunrei) is routinely input as "Shinjyuku", et cetera.

I don't like Hepburn one bit. I use it only reluctantly, because the only established alternative (Kunrei) doesn't provide for the romanization of such everyday words as フィルム. So the alternatives are (a) Hepburn and (b) (imagined) English; I mean:

• (a) kurashikku, kamera, Minoruta
• (b) classic, camera, Minolta

I sense two problems with (b). It may give the impression that the content is in English, and it seems a bit arbitrary: kamera is after all a word that's fully assimilated into Japanese; while kurashikku isn't fully assimilated and has a meaning close to "classic", other (pseudo) loanwords from English have idiosyncratic uses (Japanese analogues of the English, non-French term nom de plume).

Anyway KRKKS is not very nice, maybe we will decide KKS or CCS or the full title. The full title makes it very long; yes, I'd prefer KKS to KRKKS (or CCS to CRCCS).

I think that the idea of having one section per issue is the logical solution -- Yes. -- with the issue number in the header. Ugly!

Now I rethink this, the whole thing is not so fragile. We now have perhaps half a dozen references to the Fuji issue, but let's imagine that this number grows to fifty. Each of those fifty will link to the same template; it's the one template that will link to this sources page. So let's further imagine that two years from now KKS (or if you prefer CCS) brings out a second Fuji issue. It will then be trivially easy to (for example) retitle the header within the sources page "Fuji 1" and to change the link to it in a single place, the template that points to it. (The bibliography listings that link to the template will require no re-editing.) -- Hoary 18:59, 23 January 2007 (EST)

See Template:KKS044 for a sample of the kind of thing that I propose (note the padding to three digits: not Template:KKS8 but Template:KKS008, etc). -- Hoary 05:00, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Well, um, how do you like it and the sample template for the Fuji issue? Can one of us take off the WIP stuff and start using the templates? (On the other hand I feel as if I am about to come down with a bad cold, so my participation may be spotty.) -- Hoary 18:16, 25 January 2007 (EST)

I think it will work fine. I still don't like "Krasshikk" because I think it will scare people away and they won't remember the name of the magazine, but it is so minor. Two more important points to address are the following:

1. some issues have no particular theme or have a meaningless theme (in the style "enjoy classic cameras" or other nonsense), how would we decide the section title?
2. some issues will be quoted for a completely unrelated minor article, is it good to link to a section titled "Folding cameras" when coming from the page about the new Zeiss Ikon rangefinder camera? [... writes Rebollo fr]

I'll half agree with you on your first, no, your zeroeth point. But the corollary is that some may think that Classic Camera Senka is in English. Either way, they don't have to remember the title; they just click on the link to the relevant section of the lovely KKS page. On the first point: I'm the other side of town from my little pile of KKS now, but as I remember most (beyond perhaps the very first half dozen or so) have major chunks devoted to particular subjects. We could take the most salient two or three, so a section title might be something like "Voigtländer, Japanese plate cameras, and Leitz meters" (hypothetical example). On the second: yes. Within the next 24 hours, I'll rewrite that section in a way that I hope will satisfy you. -- Hoary 02:00, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Please see the new addition to this page. How does it grab you? -- Hoary 10:47, 26 January 2007 (EST)

I think it's good. Maybe we could shorten the title of the magazine, getting rid of the "Kamera Rebyū" and of the English sub-title: isn't "Kurashikku Kamera Senka" or "Classic Camera Senka" enough? --Rebollo fr 15:41, 26 January 2007 (EST)

I'd like to do that, but I don't think that we should. If we go back to the earliest issues, they are clearly marked as being offshoots of the magazine Kamera Rebyū. As for recent issues, the newest I have here (I think) is 76: although the magazine straightforwardly titled Kamera Rebyū no longer existed at that time, カメラレビュー is a lot more conspicuous on the spine than is クラシックカメラ専科, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if a lot of people thought of it as カメラレビュー no 76 rather than クラシックカメラ専科 no 76. So if we used the shorter (sub)title alone, I think we'd feel obliged to add in the descriptive information something like This issue of the periodical, whose full title is Kamera Rebyū: Kurashikku Kamera Senka (カメラレビュー クラシックカメラ専科), blah blah blah: ugh, horrible! -- Hoary 19:09, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Scans of the cover and contents page

I noticed that Wikipedia allows the reproduction of cover pages under fair use. Maybe we could do the same: a scan of the cover and of the table of contents would have some interest. It would fall under the US fair use copyright status if the scan is small enough and if the picture is used to illustrate this page: it would be out of question to use the scan of a cover depicting a camera in the article about this camera. --Rebollo fr 08:03, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

I think you're right. But would Flickr be happy? -- Hoary 09:47, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Olympus issue

We read: "Orinpasu no subete" but オリンパスカメラのすべて. Which is correct? -- Hoary 09:47, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

You're sharp-eyed! The first was correct, I fixed the latter. --Rebollo fr 09:50, 19 September 2007 (EDT)